Cougar attack on toddler sets off debate

cougar1

The Vancouver SUN, earlier this week, reported on a serious cougar attack to an 18-month old toddler in Vancouver Island’s Pacific Rim National Park.

Here is the article by Cindy E. Harnett:

An 18-month-old boy, who was pulled by family members from the claws of a cougar in Vancouver Island‘s Pacific Rim National Park Monday night, is in serious condition after being flown to B.C. Children’s Hospital in Vancouver.

“He is being monitored closely,” said hospital spokeswoman Tracy Tang.

Julien Sylvester was walking just three metres in front of his grandfather and another adult when the cougar lunged from a forested area at the edge of the beach, Parks Canada confirmed.

The cougar was momentarily daunted by Julien’s grandfather, then lunged at the boy’s four-year-old sister. The cougar did not make contact with the girl, who was unharmed, Parks Canada spokeswoman Arlene Armstrong said.

“The cougar surprised them really quickly from the forested edge,” Armstrong said. “It was a very quick encounter.”

The grandfather immediately “got the child to medical attention,” Armstrong said.

Julien was taken to nearby Tofino hospital and then airlifted to B.C. Children’s Hospital, where his mother Sarah Hagar remained by his bedside on Tuesday.

“The family is focusing all of their energy on their son’s recovery and are asking the media to please respect their privacy today and in the days ahead, so they can concentrate on their son’s health,” said Tang, in a statement.

The attack occurred at 6 p.m. Monday night at Swim Beach in the Kennedy Lake day-use area of the national park, about 16 kilometres east of the community of Ucluelet, B.C.

Four officers from the Conservation Officer Service, tracking dogs, Ucluelet RCMP, and West Coast Search and Rescue launched a full-scale search Monday night to track and trap the cougar. About 20 Parks Canada staff are also involved in tracking, co-ordinating the search and communications. The search continued Tuesday.

If found, the cat will be killed because it poses a public safety risk, according to Parks Canada.

“The family members did everything right,” said Armstrong. “There’s no indication the family is at fault.”

Family members who witnessed the brief attack acted properly by maintaining eye contact with the big cat and aggressively scaring if off, Armstrong said.

Although the latest word is the young boy is expected to make a full recovery, Doctor’s say the child did suffer brain damage from the cougar’s jaw and teeth which had pierced his skull.

Now (as expected) the Animal Rights ‘do-gooders’ are out in full force running to the animal’s defence, following Parks Canada’s decision to hunt the cougar; labelling it as a ‘serious threat’.

There are comments out there like; “The fact this cat did attack a child shows there is something wrong with it” and “A healthy, well-fed cougar would not attack a child in the company of two adults” and “It’s not the cougar’s fault for hunting for food”

You already know my thoughts, so what do you think?

Should any predator (be it a cougar, bear, wolf, coyote) which has attacked a human, be hunted and destroyed, or should it be left alone because it was only acting on its natural instincts?

Please feel free to way-in and share your opinion.

Outdoorsguy

116 thoughts on “Cougar attack on toddler sets off debate”

  1. Well here goes , i will test the waters first. When these people go into these areas ,they are looking for close encounters with wildlife, the way they animals act in the wild, what some of these people should realize is that these WILD animals eat MEAT and a toddler with a grown adult is no different than a elk with a calf or doe with a fawn (take the smallest) . Now on the other hand if a animal is out of its area and travels to a high density subdivision and goes after kids now we are talking apples and oranges

  2. Going camping or on a nature walk in an area known for dangerous wildlife is asking for trouble. When people step inside the animals territory they should be aware that an attack could possibly happen. Understandably, these people didn’t provoke the cougar, but perhaps they startled it while walking past the animal while it was sleeping, thereby scaring it. The cougar was just acting on survival instinct by attacking what the animal probably thought was an imminent threat. I don’t believe the animal should be destroyed because it was acting on instinct in it’s own backyard.

  3. what would you expect from a meat eater. iam sorry the little boy got mauled but lets be real here people. the animal lives in the wild and sometimes gets hungry he/she saw a chance at food and try to take it. (thank God he didnt get to eat it) we take so much from animal habitat that they are forced into the human population and all people want to do is shoot them. let the animals shoot people for taking their territory (if only it were possible) life for humans would not be to pleasant without animals and plants that keep getting disturbed by humans for humans

  4. comment to iggy how do you no the full circumstance of the attack on that little boy to say it will attack again and that some are idiots for saying leave it alone. idiots like you should be shot. sorry cougar was only acting llike a cougar how else was it suppost to act ? like an iggy

  5. That didn’t take long

    Pam and Jenni (otherwise known as those too fearful to post their whole names), I understand do gooders and greenies that live in condo’s and apartments have next to no experience with wildlife, so here it goes from a guy that does: Typically animals shy away from people. Bears, wolves, coyotes, cougars etc … they all do it. An animal in an attack has lost that behaviour, and is more likely to attack again. I’m not for the wholesale slaughter of predators, but given their range, it’s not hard to find an individual.

  6. First off I offer my sincerest sympaties to the family of the lad and I hope he recovers fully.

    ,@ Pam It’s quite clear to see who the idiot is here.

    @Chessy, well said.

    @Jeff, I ain’t no animal rights do gooder.

    Whenever a bear, cougar, coyote, wolf etc attacks a human there’s people who believe that now that it has tasted human flesh that it will continue to prey on humans. I don’t buy it. Bears, cougars, coyotes, wolves are opportunists.

    Now if we’re talking humans who kill then I’m in favor of the death penalty.

    1. Hey Trap, when did I say you were?

      Just the fact that an animal can attack once means they are ‘likely’ to do it again..its kinda like a cheating wife I suppose (or husband)

      Outdoorsguy

  7. pam says:
    September 2, 2011 at 4:44 pm
    comment to iggy how do you no the full circumstance of the attack on that little boy to say it will attack again and that some are idiots for saying leave it alone. idiots like YOU SHOULD BE SHOT. sorry cougar was only acting llike a cougar how else was it suppost to act ? like an iggy
    ===================================================================================
    so don’t shot a cougar but it’s OK to shoot a human
    you really are F#$%&@ up

    your sick actually
    mental illness is a serious and sad problem

  8. @ Jeff, I guess you never specifically accused me but I didn’t want’ to get lumped into this category….

    QUOTE JEFF: “Now (as expected) the Animal Rights ‘do-gooders’ are out in full force running to the animal’s defence,”

  9. Gee I get a kick out a lot of these people with their comments who are quick to say these people should have expected to be attacked or that the cougar shouldn’t be hunted down and killed becuase it was only acting on instinct, blah-blah-blah-blah!!! I wonder if these same people would have shared the same comment if it was their child lying in hospital as a result of the attack? Highly doubtful.

  10. QUOTE GEORGE: “I wonder if these same people would have shared the same comment if it was their child lying in hospital as a result of the attack?”

    @ George I most certainly would, it’s an occupational hazard. Bottom line, you play with fire then you better plan on getting burned once in a while.

    On the other hand, the odds of a tragedy like this happening where I am is rare as a direct result of pro actively managing the population of a variety of critters….including Cougars if the opportunity ever presents itself.

  11. I am an enthusiastic animal lover. I even foster young wildlife, then release them to the wild when they are able to survive on their own. I detest hunters, and have a deep concern for the welfare of animal conservation.
    Having said this, the cougar that very nearly killed the little 18month old boy should be killed, or at least sedated and removed to a remote area, far away from any human contact.
    Animals usually avoid any human contact, but occasionally interaction happens, and sometimes ends tragically. Yes, it would be a shame to kill a beautiful animal that was acting instinctively, but it is one lone cougar that we are talking about, not the whole species that we are eliminating. We can’t take a chance to allow this incident to happen again, with possibly more tragic results. Let’s be realistic: the cougar must be eliminated.

    Caro K.

    1. @Carol kennedy wrote “I detest hunters, and have a deep concern for the welfare of animal conservation.”

      Have you ever met me? Or Chessy? Or Trapper? Or Iggy? Or McDan, Keebler, Rob, Savage Joe, Serge??

      How can you truly detest us???

      Outdoorsguy

  12. Killing a cougar becaue it attacked a human in a park is not such a bad thing. Cougar is gone because of the dawrin theory of evolution.. DON”T ATTACK HUMAN CHILDREN!

    Now lets hear it for the kids who survived.. Wow these cougars usually break the neck on impact. Kid was very flexable and lucky.

  13. Let’s try and use a little logic here. 1. attacks on humans by animals are very rare indeed, it’s safe to say that it’s more dangerous going to a bar at 2 in the morning and looking at a dudes girlfriend. 2. It is also safe to say that an animal who does attack a human without provocation is not acting out of natural instincts, if it was no one would venture into the woods in the first place. 3. People will continue to enjoy trips in nature regardless of the minimal risks involved.

    With that being said what does it come down to, the risk of a human’s life over the right of an animal? Sorry the answer is obvious. Do we stop going to the woods – of course not, Do we stop development, anyone who resides in a dwelling anywhere (yes pam this includes you unless your a street person) has answered the question already, no. If the cougar poses a future threat, then it unfortunately has to be eliminated. I would think everyone agrees that it is sad to do so, but risking future events because the animal is in it’s natural habitat is not the way to go. Humans come first, anyone who says that animals come first really are sick.

    Prayers to the boy and family. Hopefully another family does not have to suffer the same way because a do gooder sees more value in an animal over a human.

  14. @ George. i guess your a supporter of father dalton mcsquinty he tells you what to do and when to do it… when i was young if you got bit by a dog it was probably my fault for teasing it now today kill the dog its a bad dog… Your type make me sick

  15. Well said Tom!

    Cougars are one (if not the only?) North American predator which will actively pursue humans for food. They attack the young as they are simply smaller and thus, easier targets. But you’ve seen them attack adults as well. So, as much as I don’t want to see anyone else attacked, I’m not so sure this cougar would be more apt to attack humans again or not, as a result of the little guy being attacked.

    Make no mistake either, cougars are in Ontario and Quebec. The MNR maybe won’t admit to it, but the sightings are there as is the habitat and prey.

    Let’s hope the little guy recovers 100%. There is always a risk enjoying the outdoors with a variety of animals. We have to remember, we’re on their grounds.

    Not that I would hesitate in protecting myself if the situation arose…especially if I ever saw a cougar. They scare me silly b/c i’m probably just a snack for them. (shudders).

    @Carol, it’s disappointing to see complete strangers say they hate hunters. Even then, perhaps you didn’t mean specific hunters, but the act of hunting and then, I wonder how much you actually know about the world of hunting or is it an emotionally based opinion (from probably having seen that darn Bambi as a kid where all animals in the forest are ‘buddies’ and that hunters are mean…. yeesh… Let’s not even go there about conservation – I would almost bet my life that hunters pay more AND CARE MORE about conservation than non-hunters. Heck, we’re definitely in the outdoors more than most antis, that’s for sure.

    Cheers,
    Keebler

  16. @ Carol I hope you have the licenses to raise wildlife, if you don’t your breaking the law. Those people were in a remote area, so from what your saying is kill an animal, because it poses a threat to humans???? If so than the most dangouse animal in North America should be killed … you guessed it BAMBI (The most dangerous mammal in North America is…Bambi. The U.S. Department of Transportation estimates that white-tailed deer kill around 130 Americans each year simply by causing car accidents. In 1994, these predator deer had a banner year, causing 211 human deaths in car wrecks.) Heck more people die from bees so I guess we got to eradicate them as well… carol you have no right to interfere with wildlife and release them, its people like you that semi domesticate these animals then they pose a threat to humans. I hunt and fish and I have more respect for wildlife than you do by leavening animals where they belong in the woods or on my plate with potatoes and a good fresh vegetable

  17. Jeff, lets not forget that if you eat meat, you are no better than a hunter. Whether you pull the trigger, or pay someone to do it, there is no difference.

  18. Whoa, fellow hunters!
    Such sensitive people! Did I not say that I support the shooting of the cougar?
    Maybe the word “detest” was a little strong for you big tough men. It’s not personal, and im sorry if i insulted anyone, especially since i dont know you. You dont know me either. I just dont approve of the hunting concept, killing for pleasure. This, I detest.
    I do have a license to foster animals and Ive been associated with a wildlife rehab centre for many years. Before they are released, which is a long process, they are able to survive on their own. They are not pets, and are gradually desensitized to human contact.
    I realize that the deer population is multiplying, and that they are responsible for many car accidents. Why is it then, that coyotes and wolves have been eliminated in many areas of Canada, where they are natural predators to deer? This year, there was a frenzy of panic by suburbia Ottawans over a few coyotes, which resulted in a cull.

  19. QUOTE:
    Whoa, fellow hunters!

    I’M CONFIDENT THAT YOU’RE NOT A FELLOW HUNTER.
    Quote:
    Such sensitive people! Did I not say that I support the shooting of the cougar?

    THE HYPOCRITICAL FACT THAT YOU SUPPORT THE SHOOTING OF THE COUGAR WILL NOT EARN YOU TRUST OR RESPECT AMONGST US HUNTERS WHO HUNT FOR FOOD OR TRAPPERS WHO TRAP IN ORDER TO MANAGE POPULATIONS

    Quote
    Maybe the word “detest” was a little strong for you big tough men. It’s not personal, and im sorry if i insulted anyone, especially since i dont know you. You dont know me either. I just dont approve of the hunting concept, killing for pleasure. This, I detest.

    EVERY ONE OF US DETESTS KILLING FOR PLEASURE. WE JUST WISH NARROW MINDED PEOPLE WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT ONCE AND FOR ALL.

    QUOTE: “I do have a license to foster animals and Ive been associated with a wildlife rehab centre for many years. Before they are released, which is a long process, they are able to survive on their own. They are not pets, and are gradually desensitized to human contact.”

    I’M NOT AWARE OF SUCH A LICENCE, PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME.

    QUOTE: I realize that the deer population is multiplying, and that they are responsible for many car accidents.

    I THINK YOU’LL FIND THAT THESE NUMBERS ARE BOTH DOWN. BUT THEN AGAIN I’M OF THE OPINION THAT FIGURES LIE AND LIERS FIGURE.

    QUOTE: Why is it then, that coyotes and wolves have been eliminated in many areas of Canada, where they are natural predators to deer?

    ANOTHER MYTH. HOWEVER COYOTES AND BEARS AND RACOONS ETC MOVE INTO CITIES BECAUSE OF SENSELESS CITIOTS WHO INSIST ON LEAVING OUT THEIR GARBAGE AND BIRD FEEDERS ETC.

    QUOTE: This year, there was a frenzy of panic by suburbia Ottawans over a few coyotes, which resulted in a cull.

    DID THIS CULL ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE OR WAS IT JUST TALKED ABOUT.

  20. Ms Kennedy

    Yes the deer herd has increased,and yes wolves and coyotes help to bring down the population but they also prey on livestock and as this year has proven also attack humans.There is also another reason to keep the deer herds healthy and large and that is i and thousands of other people enjoy eating venison(deer). On top of that i and thousands of others enjoy a fair chase and harvest (hunt) of our own.NO chemicals or additives added.I am fully aware of the fact most city dwellers do not understand that piece of meat on a styrofoam tray in your supermarket was once a living animal. What i don’t understand is, how you don’t care about that piece of meat because someone else killed it for you but you do care about bamby when chances are you were not there to see it killed either.

  21. Carol Kennedy
    you make me puke
    your sickening
    I wish something bad happens to you
    or your children, like what happened to this family
    I wish you all the worst
    oops
    I take it back
    maybe I was too strong
    not!!!!!!!!

    moron
    get lost you freak
    and same goes to Pam the freak who thinks I should be shot
    your both sick

    I think it’s great when freaks come on here to show just how @#$&ed
    up their sense or right and wrong is

    1. You’ll notice these discussions (regardless of the topic) in the end always come down to that age-old debate between Conservation and Preservation.

      Hunters will forever be Conservationists while environmentalists and animal rights advocates tend to be Preservationist in their thinking.

      Conservation, in my opinion, strives to find a sensible balance within fish & wildlife populations with human involvement, while the ‘laissez faire’ attitude of Preservation implies that nothing (in nature) should be touched all will work itself out just fine.

      Preservation draws a distinct line between humans and their natural world; a line which must never be crossed.

      How this kind of ‘disjointed’ thinking is even feasible is beyond me..I think I’ll stick to Conservation thank you very much.

      Outdoorsguy

  22. your right, I need some time in the bush, away from it all
    soon
    moose hunting in one month
    sorry guys
    I just can’t take the supidity
    Chessy, did you see my latest picture on
    “show us your spring picture thread.
    I love garlic hahahahahahahahaha
    man I need a holiday

  23. @ IGGY yes i did … that is what led me here and if i was your wife i would kick you out in the bush…. the part that scares me,is how do you come across those pictures????? i thought i was strange… but with all the SEARCHES i have done i have never ever come across something like that ……sic sic sic….lol have a good one

  24. @Jeff Ted Nugent said it the best

    If you want to save a species, simply decide to eat it. Then it will be managed – like chickens, like turkeys, like deer, like Canadian geese.
    Ted Nugent

    1. Yeah Chessy, you gotta love Uncle Ted for telling it like it is…and there is no bigger Conservationist out there than Ted!!

      He can ruffle a few AR feathers too..like his reply once, after being asked about Animal Rights.

      “Animal Rights?”

      “Yes, animals have rights. They have the right to butter, garlic and cooking on both sides”

      Ted Nugent

      Outdoorsguy

  25. come on Chessy, I thought they were pretty good, those pictures that loon was posting had too much silicone so I figured I’d post some real life pics, it’s all in fun, and it seems to be going over well LOL

  26. You know, if these preservationists actually took the time to meet a few hunters, they’d quickly realize that we do NOT shoot animals just to see them die. How sick is that? Hunters care a great deal about the welfare of animals. We actually have a lot more in common than you realize.

    That ground beef in your burger was once a animal, it didn’t grow in the grocery store. If you detest hunters, you must absolutely want to kill every animal farmer on the planet. Farmers raise animals with the only goal to put it on your plate. Perhaps your double standard on hunters and farmers goes as deep as a double standard for which animals can be killed for food.

    Hating hunters, and eating food, makes you a hypocrite. Period.

    Anyways, as for the topic of this blog, I believe that cougar should be put down. I’m of the opinion that if the cougar attacked a human once, it will do it again.

    Good luck in your recovery little guy.

    1. GPG, you and others have hit the nail on the head when it comes to this cougar issue.

      I guess the thing is here, even us hunters/conservationists are divided on the issue of what should be done to a predator who has attacked a man, woman or child?

      As with the majority of other hunters, I am NOT a ‘killer’ nor do I take any sick pleasure from killing an animal or watching it suffer. For me it is quite the contrary, however, in this case; as with other cases of bears who’ve taken an interest in humans as food, I believe the animal should be put down.

      This is not to say that the predator in question is necessarily ‘at fault’ in each and every case. Predatory behaviour is natural and some people do bring it upon themselves with their actions.

      That being said, I still believe we have no choice but to destroy the cougar. It would be the same for a domestic dog who crosses that line and bites a human badly. I am a huge dog lover but not so blinded by my fondness of these animals as not to see the reality of the situation.

      Outdoorsguy

  27. Well this cougar is not being hunted per se, it is being hunted down because it mauled a helpless human
    In the US, and maybe Canada (not sure) Cougars are hunted, I’ve seen TV shows where they run dogs and hunt them. It wouldn’t be for me because I eat what I hunt, but I have no problem with people who don’t. It’s just my choice, and I wish anti hunters would mind their own business. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to hunt, but leave the people alone that do.
    Funny GPG how you mention that ground beef doesn’t grow in the grocery store, and even if she doesn’t eat ground beef, I’ll bet she wears leather shoes and belts. But that I’m sure, in her case, doesn’t count

  28. @ Trapper:

    QUOTE: “I do have a license to foster animals and Ive been associated with a wildlife rehab centre for many years. Before they are released, which is a long process, they are able to survive on their own. They are not pets, and are gradually desensitized to human contact.”

    “I’M NOT AWARE OF SUCH A LICENCE, PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME.”

    There are two licenced wildlife rehabilitation centres within the Ottawa area. They are the Rideau Valley Wildlife Sanctuary and the Wild Bird Care Centre.

  29. That’s right Iggy, that doesn’t count because she is a hypocrite. The way I see it, something had to die to keep me alive today. That thought is not meant to be impowering (as Carol might say about us big tough men) but humbling in realizing that our life is thanks to a death. If the animal rights activists could realize this, they would drop their pickets on the spot.

  30. @ Jeff two more of Teds Best

    There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period.
    Ted Nugent

    Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians – except for the occasional mountain lion steak.
    Ted Nugent

  31. A woman from Vancouver, who was a tree hugger and anti-hunter, purchased acres of timberland near Lake Cowichan, Vancouver Island.

    There was a huge tree on one of the highest points in the tract.

    She wanted to view the natural splendor of her land, so she climbed the tree.

    As she neared the top, she encountered an endangered spotted owl.

    It attacked her! In her haste to escape, the woman slid down the tree to the ground.

    The ensuing fall incurred several splinters of wood in her crotch.

    In considerable pain, she hurried to the nearest doctor, 35 minutes away in Duncan.

    She told him she was an environmentalist and anti-hunter and how she came to receive all of the splinters.

    The doctor listened to her story with great patience.

    He then told her to go into the examining room and he would see if he could help.

    The impatient patient sat, and sat, and waited for three hours before the doctor reappeared.

    The angry woman demanded, ‘What took you so long?’

    He smiled and said, ‘Well, I had to get permits from Environment Canada, the BC Forest Service and Work safe BC, before I could remove old-growth timber from a recreational area.

    I’m sorry, but they turned me down.’

    OH CANADA! 🙂

  32. QUOTE “Thanks for the heads up. I wonder though, who licenses them ? And under what legislation ?” END QUOTE

    Anybody ???

  33. OK, guys I can see that I’m outnumbered.
    As for you, Iggy, or whatever your real name is, kindly keep my kids out of this “debate”. That last rebuttal of yours confirms your lack of frontal lobe development. You’re a wonderful representative of your fellow hunters. Well done! I’ll let you get back to watching that brilliant show, “Swamp People”.

    I’m glad that the little boy is doing much better.

  34. just feeding it back to you, the way you feed it out to other people
    Typical, you left wing clowns always resort to insults to the intelligence of “the other people”
    when you lose an argument and are made to look silly. Typical

    Quote
    “Carol Kennedy says:
    September 7, 2011 at 8:44 am
    OK, guys I can see that I’m outnumbered”
    End Quote
    what did you expect, you come on an outdoor blog where hunters and fishermen hang out and spew your silly theories, and then whine your outnumbered, and your running mate Pam bolted before she could reread her goofy comments.

    SWAMP PEOPLE are people too you know, I know your WAYYYYYY more superior than they is but you gotsta hand it too thems, they gots a real good life.
    Ya’ll come back now ya here……hick’up

  35. I rest my case Iggy.
    Quote:
    ” and then whine your outnumbered,”
    Just wanted to give a grammatically correct tip. It’s “you’re”, not “your”. It appears that YOU’RE a swamp person in disguise!

    Gotta geet ta wurk, ma fren! An, a’m n’t whannin’!

    🙂

  36. caught in your own web of idiosy
    Carol before you start with your snotty attempt to outwit a Swamp Person
    take a spelling lesson

    now can we get back to talking about killing

  37. @ Trapper,

    “Thanks for the heads up. I wonder though, who licenses them ? And under what legislation ?”

    Both organizations are registered charities that operate without financial support from the government. They depend upon private donations and are run by volunteers. The Rideau Valley Wildlife Sanctuary is located in North Gower and is licenced by the MNR. The Wild Bird Care Centre is located in Nepean and is licenced by both the MNR and the Canadian Wildlife Service.

  38. Is there anyway you can talk to the sun staff and find out why your post count is not updated on the bloggers page.. its gettting tiresome

    1. Its funny Chessy, I have noticed that too..it tends to lag then catches up later on..you know, I think we’re too fast even for modern technology!

      Outdoorsguy

  39. Sorry Carol

    You have gone to a site that talks about the sport of hunting and fishing. You have stated your opinion and others have challenged you on it. (some more vigorous than others) But remember you have been given a voice here, it may not be popular, it may be statements that could considered to incite others, but you have been given a voice. I have gone to PETA’s and other so called animal rights sites, and at no time has the moderator given me an opportunity to ask questions, given me an opportunity to refute many of their outragous claims, and to defend my beliefs. I have never hunted before but I understand that there are individuals that do, and I respect them because they believe in conservation, and are enviromentalists.

    I’ve also stated many times that there are hunters out there that do not follow the rules, that do not have the spirit of conservation, but they are very few. A minute minority. Just as there are a minority who drive drunk, beat their kids, and drive way over the speed limit. The many should never have to explain the few.

    So continue posting, but remember some of your comments have been insulting, and people tend to insult back. Stick to your point of view but don’t expect others to change their ways based on your opinions.

    Now I didn’t spell check, so please review my language skills as much as you want, but at least try to focus on what is being said rather on how bad the spelling and grammar are. No one is perfect, not even me.

    1. Actually Trapper, I was thinking that Tom could be our new PR Man..a smart move, especially since he is someone who does not even hunt…and he still likes us!

      That speaks volumes!!!

      Outdoorsguy

  40. Well said Tom,thanks
    but these people don’t know polite, that’s one of the reasons you can’t politely make your comments on the PETA sites. They know what’s right and what’s wrong, and they plan on telling you

  41. This is getting way too tiresome.

    Let’s talk about hunting.
    I would really like to understand what you guys get out of hunting an animal. I’m serious.
    I’m sure that you all enjoy being out in natural surroundings, on a beautiful fall day. So do I. I enjoy hiking and I love the woods. I like to shoot wildlife with a camera.
    I just don’t get the killing part. In the case of the cougar, I believe that it is necessary to find it and kill it, because we can’t risk another attack.

    1. Carol, there was an excellent article one time on hunter’s and why we/then hunt..Im sure Chessy could find it.

      It was summed up like this..”We dont hunt because he hate animals, we hunt because we love and respect animals.” It is difficult to put into words even for someone who writes all the time, but there is a connection there which is hard to put your thumb on. Trust me, for the majority of guys here the actual ‘harvest’ is really secondary to the hunt itself…and the respect for the game is question goes without saying.

      Besides hunting, many of us like myself enjoy photography and simple wildlife observation where not a drop of blood is shed. Its a shame that we are defined by a very small and brief part of the sport.

      Outdoorsguy

  42. Tom, your comments on this thread are very professional and I appreciate it! as Jeff put it “as a non-hunter it really does speak volume”…

  43. Jeff, I can be persuaded with minimal cost, Moose meat once a year can cover it.

    Trap – thanks for the props. Figure maybe just maybe the left wingers will get confused

  44. your currently at 43 on main page but 57 post…. tell them to get there butts in gear… it a glitch … people would post more if the count was up…. not every one is like me … checking all the time …

    back to the issue … why is it every time some one looses a fight on the internet they bring up spelling …. like the old days on the play ground…. get your ass kicked and the first come back is .your fat …… grow up people

  45. Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate your response.
    I’d like to read that article you mentioned.
    I find it hard to make the connection with loving and respecting animals and killing them, so maybe reading more about it will help.
    I know that I’m in your territory, on a hunter’s blog, and I appreciate your time of day. I also know that you guys are probably very decent men, not bloodthirsty killers.( even Iggy!)
    Perhaps you guys could also try to understand where I’m coming from.
    Now I have to get back to my animals! Enjoy the wilderness boys!
    I’m sure you’ll all be glad to know that…..I’m outta here!

  46. my opion for what its worth, i’m with chessy and i believe trapper, if that attack was in an urban setting or a high “traffic” area ie camp ground then i would say yes it needs to be disposed of. But in a wilderness area i would like it to be left alone and maybe post a sign warning of potential danger. I’ve been getting picture of sow and two cubs on my game cam. when i go to my spot i am very cautious making lots of noise going up keeping a close eye on my suroundings etc. i do get somewhat nervous but thats the chance I take. i backed out of a hike this past sunday because bear signs were to intense and i didnt want to push my luck.
    Carrol why do people hunt? well why do people farm? i’ve done both for some of the same reasons. Put food on my family’s table. i find the meat from wild game and from small farm tastier and healthier than store bought. you greenies would call that organic! hunting provides food, exercise ,camadery,family time,down time etc..we don’t just go out one day and shoot something. we observe our game in its natural setting,we’re observers of weather,conditions of our woods,waterwaysand wildlife.we hate poachers, abusers and the reckeless twits that try to associate themselves with us. we do love nature,yes differently than you do but we still do. we like, you take hikes,take lots of pictures,canoe our wonderful waterways,camp out etc.. there have been generations of my family that have been hunting going back to the late 1700’s in this country and there has been hunting since people have been on this earth. those are some of the reasons that i hunt caroll. and the hell with spell check it is what it is!!!!

  47. carol … its quite simple … we get food out of it. The rest is a good hike with friends, learning about wildlife etc etc etc.

    It’s not really that hard to understand.

    While most people prefer to get their meat poorly cut and wrapped in plastic where umpteen number of people have handled it, and it is of unknown quality, hunters do the killing and cutting themselves.

    Simple enough ?

  48. Why We Hunt

    By Randall L. Eaton, Ph.D.

    We hunt because we love it, but why do we love it so?

    As an inherited instinct, hunting is deeply rooted in human nature. Around the world in all cultures the urge to hunt awakens in boys. They use rocks, make weapons or sneak an airgun out of the house to kill a bird or small mammal. In many cases the predatory instinct appears spontaneously without previous experience or coaching, and in the civilized world boys often hunt despite attempts to suppress their instinct.

    The fundamental instinct to hunt may link up with the spiritual. An analogy is falling in love in which eros, the sexual instinct, connects with agape or spiritual love. Initiation on the path of love changes our life irreversibly. Henceforth, we shall know the meaning of our authentic love experienced with the totality of our being.

    When we fall in love, the instinctive or primal self merges with the spiritual. It is a vertical convergence of subconscious to superconscious, lower to higher.

    Hunting is how we fall in love with nature. The basic instinct links up with the spiritual, and the result is that we become married to nature. Among nature pursuits, hunting and fishing connects us most profoundly with animals and nature. As Robert Bly said in his best-selling book Iron John only hunting expands us sideways, “into the glory of oaks, mountains, glaciers, horses, lions, grasses, waterfalls, deer.”

    Hunting is a basic aspect of a boy’s initiation into manhood. It teaches him the intelligence, beauty and power of nature. The young man also learns at a deep emotional level his inseparable relationship with nature as well as his responsibility to fiercely protect it.

    Essentially, hunting is a spiritual experience precisely because it submerges us in nature, and that experience teaches us that we are participants in something far greater than man. Ortega y Gasset, the Spanish philosopher, described the hunter as the alert man. He could not have said it better. When we hunt we experience extreme alertness to the point of an altered state of consciousness. For the hunter everything is alive, and he is one with the animal and its environment.

    Though the hunter may appear from the outside to be a staunch egotist dominating nature, on the inside he is exactly the opposite. He identifies with the animal as his kin, and he feels, as Ortega said, tied through the earth to it. The conscious and deliberate humbling of the hunter to the level of the animal is virtually a religious rite.

    While the hunt is exhilarating and unsurpassed in intrinsic rewards and emotional satisfactions, no hunter revels in the death of the animal. Hunters know from first-hand experience that “life lives on life,” as mythologist Joseph Campbell said. The hunter participates directly in the most fundamental processes of life, which is why the food chain is for him a love chain. And that is why hunters have been and still are, by far,…

  49. , the foremost conservationists of wildlife and wild places, to the benefit of everyone.

    Today as for countless millennia proper initiation to hunting engenders respect for all life, responsibility to society, even social authority, and spiritual power. It develops authentic self-esteem, self-control, patience and personal knowledge of our place in the food chain. According to Dr. Don T. Jacobs, author of Teaching Virtues, “hunting is the ideal way to teach universal virtues,” including humility, generosity, courage and fortitude. As I said in The Sacred Hunt, “Hunting teaches a person to think with his heart instead of his head. That is the secret of hunting.”

    Consequently, the most successful programs ever conducted for delinquent boys have focused on hunting. The taking of a life that sustains us is a transformative experience. It’s not a video game. Hunting is good medicine for bad kids because it is good medicine for all kids.

    Hunting is a model for living. When we hunt we discover that we are more than the ego. That our life consists of our ego in a mutually interdependent and transcendent relationship with nature. We keep returning to the field because for us hunting is a dynamic ritual that honors the animals and the earth on which we depend both physically and spiritually.

    While interviewing Felix Ike, a Western Shoshone elder, I asked him, “What kind of country would this be if the majority of men in it had been properly initiated into hunting?” He replied, “It would be a totally different world.”

    In a world imperiled by egoism and disrespect for nature, hunting is morally good for men and women, boys and girls. Hunters understand the meaning in Lao Tzu’s statement,

    The Earth is perfect,
    You cannot improve it.
    If you try to change it,
    You will ruin it.
    If you try to hold it,
    You will lose it.

    Some aboriginal peoples believe that the Creator made us perfect, too, and that He made us to be hunters, dependent on nature and close to the earth. Like Narcissus, civilized humanity has fallen in love with itself and turned its back on its hunting companions and its animal kin. Beware the teaching of the ages summarized in this admonition from Loren Eiseley, “Do not forget your brethren, nor the green wood from which you sprang. To do so is to invite disaster.”

    Disaster looms over us now as we wage endless battles with anti-hunters who do not understand that we are the tribe of wild men and women whose hearts hold the promise for recovery of proper relationship to the animals and earth. If we should lose hunting a far greater disaster will befall nature, society and the human spirit.

  50. Carol I will put it in terms you may understand.

    “I enjoy hiking and I love the woods. I like to shoot wildlife with a camera.” that satisfies the voyeur in me and is great foreplay but every once in a while it is nice to have the “Big O.”

    The successful completion of a hunt is a primeval gut wrenching passion that is ingrained in the human psyche. True hunters can not ignore it any more than we can ignore breathing!

  51. Carol, I’m glad to see that you took my advice to get to know a hunter before judging us.
    Let me try to put it into words…

    I”m getting ready for my first hunt next week, and I already consider myself a hunter, because I feel I’ve prepared myself adequately. It’s a respect for nature so deep that it goes beyond the kill, and beyond the food on the table (which is fantastic by the way).

    I have been preparing for my first hunt since January, but I know it’s been inside of me, part of who I am, since I was a boy. From the time a decision was taken to hunt, an entire experience has unfolded. I have taken the hunting courses in the spring, chosen my weapon carefully (a compound bow for me), read countless articles, spoken to many other hunters. I bought gear from camo to broad-heads, to coolers, printed and prepared maps, and visualized the hunt almost every night.

    When trying to figure out an animal, you must try to think of all the details. The way they think, they defend, they attack, the food and drink they eat, their moving habits, the land, etc. When you begin to think that deep, you start thinking about the whole ecosystem in which they are surrounded. You study the animal, you memorize maps, you learn the land. This brings an understanding and a sense of respect for the animal and for nature. That they are able to survive at all in these conditions is truly amazing.

    To finally meet one face to face must be (because I haven’t yet) incredibly aw inspiring. But don’t think about it too long, you have but a split second to take a perfect shot. It’s the culmination of months of preparations, and even generations of training and teaching into one single moment. The camaraderie and support from the others in the hunting group is essential to the success and the enjoyment of the hunt.

    There is ultimately (hopefully) a kill. A clean kill with a single shot to limit the suffering. To me it is not only the thrill of success, but an appreciation that such a beautiful animal has died for my survival. And when I sit down for a big bowl of moose stew, I will be satisfied to know that I have fed myself truly “from scratch” and I will pay tribute to the animal that has kept me, my family, and my hunting partners alive. This is something that the grocery store could never provide. That is hunting for me.

  52. QUOTE “This is getting way too tiresome.

    Let’s talk about hunting.
    I would really like to understand what you guys get out of hunting an animal. I’m serious.
    I’m sure that you all enjoy being out in natural surroundings, on a beautiful fall day. So do I. I enjoy hiking and I love the woods. I like to shoot wildlife with a camera.
    I just don’t get the killing part. In the case of the cougar, I believe that it is necessary to find it and kill it, because we can’t risk another attack. END QUOTE

    One word can describe hunting Carol “Sustenance”

    Trapping on the other hand is “population managment” and contrary to the opinion of some narrow minded people, it is a 100% renewable resource that leaves no carbon imprint, and protects and preserves the environment.

    I wonder; while out hiking and photographing do you wear polar fleece, or Columbia coats ?

    I wonder; When you go out dancing do you wear perfume, lipstick and mascara ?

    1. I think everyone should know where castoreum comes from(& what its used for)..and its not those beaver tails you get down at Dow’s Lake either!

      They use it as a food additive as well..

      Outdoorsguy
      P.S. Of course the reality of it, for some, may be like watching that ‘hotdog’ vid as a kid…course, nothing could turn me off hotdogs!!

      1. Ok, I grabbed this drivel from some ‘Anti’ website…this is their take on the evils of castoreum.

        I love the part where they describe Castoreum as ‘a product of extreme animal abuse’:

        Natural flavors…

        The name sounds innocent enough, but these mild-sounding words are used by the food industry as an umbrella term for some pretty horrible stuff, including certain ingredients that come from extreme animal abuse.

        The exact definition of natural flavors from the Code of Federal Regulations is as follows:

        “The term natural flavor or natural flavoring means the essential oil, oleoresin, essence or extractive, protein hydrolysate, distillate, or any product of roasting, heating or enzymolysis, which contains the flavoring constituents derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf or similar plant material, meat, seafood, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation products thereof, whose significant function in food is flavoring rather than nutritional.”

        When the phrase ‘natural flavors’ appears on a package, the best move is to call the company and find out what the flavors are actually made from. Of course, I say this assuming that we’re all the kind of people who would be horrified to find out that we might have come close to ingesting fluid from the sex glands of beavers.

        Think that sounds absurd? Then you must not have heard of castoreum, which is “used extensively in perfumery and has been added to food as a flavor ingredient for at least 80 years.”

        Castoreum is a bitter, orange-brown, odoriferous, oily secretion, found in two sacs between the anus and the external genitals of beavers. The discharge of the castor sac is combined with the beaver’s urine, and used during scent marking of territory. Both male and female beavers possess a pair of castor sacs and a pair of anal glands located in two cavities under the skin between the pelvis and the base of the tail.

        Castoreum is a product of the trapping industry. When beavers are skinned for their fur, these glands are taken out, and are sold after being smoked or sun-dried to prevent putrefaction…

        Well, that’s a relief.

        The European Beaver was hunted to near extinction, both for fur and for castoreum, which was also believed to have medicinal properties. The North American beaver population was once more than 60 million, but as of 1988 was 6–12 million, largely due to extensive hunting and trapping. Although sources report that beaver populations have now recovered to a stable level, some experts say that today’s American beaver population is only 5 percent of what it was when Europeans first settled in North America.

        Castoreum is used in “high class” perfumery for “refined leathery nuances.” It is also reportedly used in some incense, and to contribute to the flavor and odor of cigarettes. In food, castoreum is used to flavor candies, drinks, and desserts such as puddings.

        Grossed out? Horrified that humans think nothing of killing innocent beings so we can dress ourselves in their fur and flavor our candies with their secretions? I have a solution for you: Go vegan – really vegan. Don’t use cosmetics that are made using animal products, read the ingredients on food packages, call customer support when you see those scary words, ‘natural flavors’, and guess what? You’ll never eat anyone’s anal fluid again.

  53. QUOTE: The European Beaver was hunted to near extinction, both for fur and for castoreum, which was also believed to have medicinal properties.

    The North American beaver population was once more than 60 million, but as of 1988 was 6–12 million, largely due to extensive hunting and trapping. Although sources report that beaver populations have now recovered to a stable level, some experts say that today’s American beaver population is only 5 percent of what it was when Europeans first settled in North America. END QUOTE

    Very accurate statements and we have learned not to make the same mistake they made in Europe. Beaver populations are in fact maintained at a stable level as a direct result of proper population management practiced by trappers.

    Beaver are the second largest natural cause of damage to forests. The first being fire.

    I can just see Carol now frantically rummaging through her make up and perfume collection. ROFLMAO 🙂

  54. “but as of 1988 was 6–12 million, largely due to extensive hunting and trapping.”
    And nothing to do with urban sprawl, right?
    “contribute to the flavor and odor of cigarettes.”
    That’s it!! I’m quitting smoking! it’s over. That’s what put it over the top for me. hahaha

    Does the fact that you write “The exact definition” insinuate that sometimes your definitions are not “exact”?

    The negative spin in that story is childish actually. Using big words like secretion, grossed out, external genitals, horrified, caviites, just to scare the princesses into going “vegan – really vegan”… I mean come on.

    Thanks for the laugh Jeff.

    Also, that story on hunting is a very good description of why we hunt.

    1. No Chess, I was referring to the crap written about Castoreum..dont think there’s any PH.D holders there..hehe

      The other article was terrific!

      Outdoorsguy

  55. Hi guys,
    I had to respond just one more time.
    First of all, thanks to all of you for your input about hunting. I can understand that the hunt is not just about a kill, but a lot more than that.
    When Eaton says,quote, ” hunting is how we fall in love with nature”, I can say the same when I relate it to walking, kayaking, or camping, or just looking out my front window.
    I grew up as a country girl, and I now live in 20 acres of coniferous/deciduous woods. I’m a naturalist, and like you guys, know a lot about many species of animals and birds from chickadees to great grey owls.
    I love to observe them alive and well. You have to agree with me that a dead buck isn’t as beautiful as a vibrant healthy one. I know,you’ll say, “the meat is beautiful”.
    What about your fellow men, who like me, don’t agree with hunting. Are they any less instinctual, and have they missed out on their “initiation into manhood”, ? as Eaton says.
    Many men love nature without becoming hunters. My late father was one of them, and he was an experienced woodsman, and conservationist.
    I guess that we can agree on one thing, that we have mutual respect for nature. At least you guys have rules and boundaries. I have a farmer neighbor who hunts at any time of the year, and indiscriminately.
    One more thing, and this is for Rick Poulin, I shoot with a camera, but I don’t compare it to foreplay, I actually compare it to the big O, only it’s over and over and over again, if you get my drift. When you shoot your gun, it’s over and done with, the animal has gone …. limp.
    So long, men in orange!
    🙂

    I’m just curious about what you guys think about men who do not hunt, and like myself, enjoy watching a deer undisturbed in it’s natural environment.

  56. @ Carrol yes a healthy duck is vibrant. but if it is not managed they will die a horrible death look at the snow geese . i hunted lake ontario and every day a woman total anti hunting use to snear at us everyday one day we shot a drake goldeneye she asked us if she could see it she said they are more beautiful close up . after that day she even brought us coffee for us to let her experince the bird close up she said she has only see them from afar. I can understand where she comes from and she now can understand where we come from .

  57. Carol, nice to see you’re opening up your mind a bit. We as hunters and trappers all love the same sights as you do when we see mother nature’s creatures alive. We also have to eat a few in order to keep the cycle going.

    Many of us also take in mother nature through a lens, be it a Leupold or a Nikon and the Big ‘O’ affects us all.

    I can’t help but notice however how many of my queries you avoided….If you’re truly finished with this thread (which I doubt) I invite you to get my e-mail address from Jeff and we can continue this debate with a civil tongue…..

  58. QUOTE”probably very decent men, not bloodthirsty killers.( even Iggy!)”
    hahahahaha

    Carol, you keep saying “that’s it”, but you keep coming back 🙂
    deep down I think you really want to meet some hunters hehe

    anyway Carol, I was pulling your leg earlier but now I’m about to get serious.
    Why do I hunt
    I don’t know
    but I love to.
    I also love to fish and walk in the wilderness without a gun in the off season, I love watching deer, I do it at my cottage all summer and in the winter I feed them. Not so I can hunt them, because I don’t hunt at my cottage. I feed them because I love wildlife. But I also like eating wild game. I only hunt what I eat, and if I don’t eat it, I don’t hunt it. Others hunt things like racoons, coyotes, and wolves, but I don’t. I have no problem with them hunting a legal species, I just don’t want to kill an animal that I don’t eat, I don’t really see the point.
    May I also point out that most times when I hunt, I come home empty handed, a wise old man once told me,
    ” if you kill every time you go out, soon there won’t be any left”
    I also canoe, kayak, hike and photograph, but what I love the most is being out at the crack of dawn on a frosty fall morning, smelling the freshly fallen leaves and not knowing what this next day will bring.

  59. Carol, I love naturalists too. You can take wild pictures of me over and over and over and “O”, I promise I won’t go limp. Now stop teasing and either go away, or stay and play. GPG FTW.

  60. Carol, when my freezer is full for the year my guns go away (figuratively, given I’m out baiting bear/wolf/coyote traps … and they sometimes are there when I am there, and I don’t want to be a tastier meal) … and the camera comes out. Hunting for me takes about 10 days of wandering to get enough for the year, the rest of the year is spent out in the bush, recording tracks, markings, scrapes, carcasses and the like, as well as check trail cameras to keep a good record of the populations in the area. This generally defines what is on the menu that year. A rough summer last year meant my rabbit population was quite low, so no snow hare cacciatore for us this past winter.

    As hunters we do not go out and shoot the first thing that moves to get a head on our wall, wiping out the population is counter productive as it leads to less for the following year. The saame can be said about not managing an over population, leaving that means an over abundance of predators, who will wipe out their food source and starve themselves; or worse, have disease wipe out the population at large (see cwd down south where folks are less apt at hunting)

  61. A few points Carol. “One more thing, and this is for Rick Poulin, I shoot with a camera, but I don’t compare it to foreplay, I actually compare it to the big O, only it’s over and over and over again, if you get my drift. When you shoot your gun, it’s over and done with, the animal has gone …. limp.”

    How can you truly compare it if you have never tried it?

    When I shoot my gun I reload for next time. It may not be as often as your over and over again but it can be done over and over again and I can assure you it is far more intense.

    “I’m just curious about what you guys think about men who do not hunt, and like myself, enjoy watching a deer undisturbed in it’s natural environment.”

    There is room in my woods for them and I welcome them to enjoy nature as they see fit. What I do not accept is their telling me how I can enjoy doing what I legally do.

    I am a hunter not a scavenger at the local grocery store.

    I welcome you to continue with the debate. We can both learn from it.

  62. I never really thought of it like that Rick, but I like the way you explained being a scavenger in the local grocery store, because that’s exactly what your doing, someone or something else has done your dirty work and now your there to scrape up the remnants, kind of like a turkey vulture or a s#!t hawk at a McDonalds

  63. Hi, it’s me again!
    Honestly, this is the last time.
    First of all, thanks for giving me an idea of what the hunt is like. It’s a lot like the rush I get walking through the woods early in the morning. It’s an invigorating feeling, especially in the fall.
    My guess is that hunting must be some sort of challenge for you guys, and I suppose that’s why it’s called a sport.
    I’m glad to hear that a lot of you guys do take pictures, and even feed the deer. I saw some of your photos. You guys seem so fond of them, yet you want to kill one, or more in the fall. This I still find it hard to relate to. It’s kind of a contradiction.

    I had an elk at my bird feeder this past winter. She also hung out with the goats, but avoided my horses. She stayed around my place for about 2 1/2 months. She had escaped from a deer/elk farm many kilometers away and made it to my place. She was a beautiful animal, and she would let me feed her by hand and pet her.She was free to come and go as she chose. She disappeared in the spring, but I suspect that the farmer may have killed her.

    I have a question for you guys about different species. When we first moved here, we had many rabbits and hares, as well as foxes. Now we have coyotes and wild turkeys predominantly. I never see a rabbit anymore.We also have a lot of deer and partridge. Do you find that the fluctuation of species is cyclical, or permanent? My suspicion is that the coyotes have driven the foxes out . What do you guys think.

  64. coyotes follow foxes and steal there cash of food.. we do not have partridge in ontario we have ruffed grouse (people call them partridge but its a total differnt bird) rabbits and hares are up in population in some areas and low in others. these populations are up and down like a toilet seat

  65. All are cyclical.

    What location are you in Carol ?

    It’s not only the wiley coyote that affects populations. A Fisher will clean out a rabbit population in no time. If you have chickens then be aware of the Ermine and Raccoons and Fox (chicken is their favorite meal).

    As for the ruffed grouse and spruce hens, a healthy population of Owl, Hawkes or even Osprey will add to the decline that the Ermine and Raccoons and Fox create.

    A word of caution re: walking in the woods in the fall with your camera, please make yourself aware of what if any hunting seasons are open and if you’re going to be walking in an area where there is an open season wear a sufficient amount of hunter orange.

    ps: I knew you’d be back…….

  66. funny, up until about 4 years ago we never had rabbit/hare near our house in the city, now we see them all the time, even more than cats. I think they are kind of cute, and I would eat them but they are un-huntable because we live in the city. Grouse are a little scarce around here and around our hunt camp, it seems that the wolf and coyote pops have kept their numbers in check. Too bad because I love hunting them and love eating them. Interesting how the populations go up and down and I doubt very much man has anything to do with it. If these animals were hunted hard all the time then man could be blamed, but I think their population rises and falls as the population of their predators rise and fall.

  67. phew, this is one beat up dead horse…sooooo let me throw in another kick.
    As far as I am concerned if we play in a Cougar, or a bear’s back yard we should expect to be hunted. It’s rare, thankfully! Are those animals so intelligent as to know the ramifications of attacking a two legged variety of game? Wild animals hunt and kill to survive, DUH! It’s what they do and like it or not, we are made of meat.
    Should we sterilize every piece of wilderness that humans may visit so it won’t happen in future? I don’t think so.

    As far as the anti-hunt topics – I am a hunter, and I do not enjoy killing for the sake of killing, but nothing beats a nice soybean/alfalfa/corn fed venison strip loin steak. Now that’s organic as it gets.

  68. Trapper,
    You’re absolutely right about the fishers. I’m sure that they would wipe out the rabbits. There were sightings in this area a few years ago and people were losing their cats. I saw one once, and I was impressed with their boldness, as it showed no fear at all. I doubt very much that it was rabid. I experienced a similar thing with a weasel when I was a kid. My Dad raised ring-necked pheasants, and a weasel had killed a few of them. The weasel didn’t move when we went into the pen. Same family, Mustelidae.

    I just want to leave you guys with a few words of advice:
    First of all, Trapper, I’m sorry, I just could not put the orange on. But I could wear fuschia pink, or red, in fact you guys might consider one of these alternatives. The pink could certainly test your manliness.
    Secondly, you have to make sure that those ball caps that you wear actually FIT your heads. Nothing worse than a hat a foot off a guy’s head, not too sexy. If you have a big head, get the adjustable kind.
    The same can be same for the camouflage garb; won’t get the ladies with this crap guys. At least change your clothes when you’re done with your,( cough,) hunting.
    Next. Try pizza once in awhile. My favorite is veggie, with hot peppers. In fact vegetables are very, very good for you, but I’m sure you guys have heard about this.
    I’ve come to the conclusion that the big bad hunter is not so bad after all, just different. You guys even has a sense of humour!
    One last thing: Please, please try to make it a clean kill, with as little suffering as possible, when you do get your chance.

    Enjoy the woods.

    I’m going for a spin in my little Miata. These days are numbered for convertibles!

  69. Ok Johan, everyone has an opinion and yours is fair, so that means by your reasoning, if a Cougar plays in our backyard, or a bear, it better know what it has coming to it. I don’t agree with that, bears hunt in my backyard all the time but that doesn’t mean I can automatically kill them.
    Humans hunt to survive too, no so much anymore because we have domestic animals, but at one time it was the only way to harvest meat, and the meat from a moose bear or deer is tastier and better for us. We shouldn’t sterilize wilderness, but if an animal decides it wants to eat humans, we need to protect ourselves and our families again that specific animal

  70. Carol … something to consider … there are quite a few female hunters … so feel free to put away the failed stereotype of the manliness stuff …

    Hell my wife does all my cutting, she hunts, she traps, and even has her fur buyers licence to purchase and process furs.

  71. @ Carol, i love veggies we eat pizza all the time with veggies cause the meat you get at those places are (lips and a$$hole meat) there is only one place in the area to get a good pizza. also your comment on a clean kill shot it is our duty as hunters to make darn sure about that and if not those hunters hear about it we have a camp policy that every one sights gun in and we make sure at camp it is we usually fire a few shots at a target to prove it. As far as the pink comment were it ever year for cancer, so i guess some hunters are the same or equal to you .. the reason why we were our hunting close is the same reason some of you parade around and cary signs about anti hunting this is our only way to show people that we are proud of hunting and hunting clothes are half the price of those columbia jackets or other sports named clothes and twice as warm

  72. aahhh That was nice Carol. Ever since I was diagnosed with high blood pressure and high cholesterol I’ve started eating way more fruit and vegetables, but I must confess, I still like red and white meat.
    We are forced to wear hunter orange, or I’d wear pink, I actually have a golf shirt that colour and when people make fun of it I tell them it’s not pink, it salmon 🙂

    Anyway, like I’ve said so many times, you do your thing, I’ll do mine, I won’t bug you and criticize you for the things that you do, like drive around in a car needlessly polluting the environment, as long as you leave me to do what I love.
    Have a nice weekend
    Off to shoot at the range on Sunday

  73. C’mon, guys, lighten up.
    I thought you had a sense of humour. Keep your orange!
    Glad to hear that you guys participate in the breast cancer cause, (in pink) Chessy. Fantastic!
    I’m sure that there are many women involved with hunting, and quite capable, Rob.
    I don’t wear Columbia, Chessy.
    And I’m sure that you guys do eat your veggies, wonderful!

    I’m out of here!
    🙂

    1. Ok, I think I’ll put together a new post tomorrow, and perhaps we’ll find some more new friends.

      Thanks to everyone for their input..we just about made the coveted ‘100 comments’ in 1 week mark; which I’m sure is some sort of record.

      Of course, in a few weeks from now there will be noone around here. We’ll all be out in the bush!(Well, most of us anyway)

      Outdoorsguy

  74. smack *100
    great debate that turned out well!
    PS
    Sighted in the guns yesterday at a local hunt camp. I won the coveted 1st place Rifle With Scope trophy!

    Had a great day with my two sons! Priceless
    all ready for the hunt for that clean one shot kill

    1. Alain D, thanks for pushing us over that elusive 100 mark!

      Sounds like you’ve been doing your ‘hunting homework’…guess those critters dont have a chance now.

      Outdoorsguy

  75. What you going to talk about tomorrow Jeff, pam anderson going into big brother house…. for some one who don’t eat meat she sure does like non organic material…

    1. Rob, I wont be bringing a sat phone to the bush…but I MAY bring the laptop this year..just so the guys can all see the trailcam images..that will
      be a first! Of course, it wont be leaving the camp.

      Outdoorsguy

  76. today we had our last meeting before we leave, shot the rifles and planned the trip and meals, found out one of the regulars can’t go so we are down to 6 guys.
    E-mailed the outfitter who flew in our beer, water and pop order today on a back haul taking out the last fishermen. All set, no one will be in camp to disturb the mating moose. Cooked my meal and my two soups this afternoon. All set but the packing. Should all work out well.
    Now it’s just 25 more sleep filled nights dreaming about that big bull or the cow and the calf. The countdown has begun.
    Any one know of any real good adventure book that I can buy to read on my watch?

    2 bull tags one cow woooohooooo

  77. QUOTE: ” I’ve come to the conclusion that the big bad hunter is not so bad after all, just different. You guys even has a sense of humour! One last thing: Please, please try to make it a clean kill, with as little suffering as possible” END QUOTE

    Thanks Carol, I hope you enjoy your time in the woods as much as we do, The best time of year is upon us and rest assured we all want a clean kill.

    ps: I have to say this though, I can’t help but wonder what lured Carol to this blog. She doesn’t seem to be the psycho anarchist animal rights person we have done battle with before…..Then she goes on to talk about the Big “O”, and now the fact that she owns a Miata….hmmmmm I wonder if maybe her Google search simply contained the word ‘Cougar’……….Carol, what are you doing the third week of Oct and can you wash dishes as well as cook veggie pizza ?

  78. Iggy: you might want to try “The Last Guide” from Ron Crobett. I really liked it. It’s about a fishing guide in Algonquin Park. Otherwise, I’ve heard Hap Wilson’s new book Grey Owl is very good. I’ve read many of Hap’s books and canoeing guides. He guided Pierce Brosnan when he was here shooting the movie Grey Owl, and it’s Hap’s own experience of this adventure. I might bring that one mysef actually.

    Trapper: Nice parting shot!

    My hunting preparations are coming to a close soon. The gear and beer are all packed in the truck, boots are sealed, axe and knives sharpened, bow and arrows all set, maps printed, GPS is ready, hunting clothes washed and sealed, food in the freezer ready for the cooler. I’m almost all set.
    What’s left? final food purchases (fruit, milk, etc.) and packing the coolers, strapping 2 canoes to the truck, and final packing in the truck box.

    We’re leaving Ottawa Friday morning for Timmins. The hunt group are all meeting up at my cousin’s for the night, then off to the camp first thing Saturday morning. Among the group, we have 1 bull, 2 cows, and 3 calves seals. Basically, if you get a clean shot, take it!! It seems unreal after all the preparations over the past months, that we’re only a few days away!!!

  79. I’ve already read Ron Corbett’s book, as a matter of fact, I’ve also canoed the same route before the book came out, good read for anyone who hasn’t picked it up. I’m a collector of Algonquin Park books and have canoed and fished through a lot of it. Thanks though

    I have to start washing and preparing my gear and clothing, it’s still three weeks away so between now and then I still have a (deer) hunt camp work weekend and get the cottage greared for the winter close up.

  80. It sure is Jeff. I believe he was with the other local daily paper at the time. A very interesting and somewhat historical story of guiding in Algonquin. It’s mainly the life story of Frank Kuiack.

    Iggy, ever since I’ve read it, I’ve wanted to fish that lake… maybe next year. How was you experience on the lake?

  81. how about a piece on enforcement or lack of it ….. where are our enforcement officers… we might as well not have any . our resourses are being rapped everyday . I know it is not the officers fault but lack of them. I think its about time to stop worrying about bears and other pest its time to put money back into the enforcement branch, before we dont have anything left to hunt or fish for

  82. was a fun canoe trip but not a lot of fish, no big deal though
    Franks nephew, his name is also Frank, is a well known colourful figure around Whitney and come to give us fishing tips every year on the May long weekend. He is known in the local rag as Frank the Master Baiter

  83. These animal rights freaktards must think these animals are over sized kitty cats watching the DISNEY CAHNNEL all day I wonder who would happen if one of these idiot met a wild cougar face to face would they approach the animal saying HERE KITTY,KITTY,KITTY? Ignorant flatlanders

  84. I wonder how these cougar enthusists would react if one of of these preditors attacked them would they say NICE KITTY,NICE KITTY I guess they have had their views of nature and wildlife has been so disnefied for them Just wait until they encounter a real moutian lion and not the faked ones

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