Ontario non-native hunters face troubling times

Hotelbuck1959

If the recent land claim with Algonquin’s of Ontario goes through, a large parcel of eastern Ontario will be handed over to the aboriginal community.

In a nutshell,  the deal would see the transfer of 117,000 acres of Ontario Crown land to 10 different Algonquin communities. Although no private property is said to be expropriated, there is also a cash component to the deal of $300 million.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that any non-native hunting (or trapping) camps located within these 117, 000 acres would be adversely affected. Anyone who currently hunts in this region can expect there to be issues and concerns, although what they might be has yet to be determined.

The aboriginal land claim dispute has been a hotbed issue for many years, and now that this pustule pimple has finally come to a head, non-native hunters are fearing the worst.

Without even knowing all the details, it is a fair assumption to say that sparks are about to fly. I am sure glad that my hunt camp isn’t located in the area in question.

Stay tuned for a lot more on this issue…

 

Outdoorsguy

72 thoughts on “Ontario non-native hunters face troubling times”

  1. I saw that article and a few flags went up:

    1. First, the reported $300 million to be given along with the land. Regardless if that amount is higher or lower, there needs to be OUTSIDE accounting practices applied so the Algonquins are accountable for how it’s spent. (ie. Attawapiskat anyone?) I think it’s safe to say this should be happening for any more handouts!

    2. The govt needs to work with the MNR and the natives to ensure that any current non-native landowners have proper access to the same traditions their families have enjoyed for decades. I would find it highly ironic and sad if the natives didn’t provide non-natives the same access considering they want the land back for the (you’d hope?) same traditional values for how it’s currently being used? The article seems to suggest that there would be a transitional period, but that’s not good enough for me. The rights of non-native landowners in that area should be FOREVER. Period.

    I went to a high school with a native reserve nearby. I got along well with everyone in high school. Still have native friends to this day and I value those relationships.

    But I personally think enough’s enough. We keep handing over money and now there’s talk of more land being given away. I’m tired of it.

    When will it stop? Seriously? I feel I’m being punished for something our forefathers did. I guess natives feel the same way, but that’s all over with now. We didn’t control the decisions back then, but we can have a say now I hope!

    They’re an important part of Canada, but I don’t see how they’re any more special than myself? I’ve been around just as long as my friends. I’d sure like to have tax free purchases, go to post secondary for free and maybe get a moose tag more often than once every 15 years.

    Regardless of how I feel or how any native feels, which are completely opposite ends of the spectrum, I’m not sure how it can really ever end?

    Now watch, I have to take the train later this week, if there’s another idle-no-more stopping my travel after surgery, I may just go ballistic! 🙂 lol

    Cheers,
    Keebler

  2. WELL ITS ABOUT TIME

    here is a little tidbit of information
    Brian Crane, the lead negotiator for Ontario in the land claim talks, said the province accepts the eligibility criteria and don’t have an issue with who’s in the claim.
    He said for camps like the Barron River camp, Ontario wants to protect existing rights, including the right of access and traditional hunting. While the Algonquins will be the landowners and use the land as they see fit, he said he would like to see both sides negotiate a deal that gives people time to adjust.
    “What we’re ensuring to the hunt camp people is that there is not going to be any abrupt change and they are going to be part of the solution in working things out with the Algonquins. And Ontario is going to be there as a facilitator in those discussions,” said Crane.

    YUP BRIAN CHEQUES IN THE MAIL (total sarcasm)

    1. Yeah Chessy trust me, it’s not a topic I necessarily enjoy talking about, and in fact anyone who’s followed my material over the years knows I have actually never written about it.

      But….now that I see hunters being adversely affected, I know it’s something we NEED to discuss and that land claims will only become a greater issue as time goes on.

      Outdoorsguy

  3. and 100 years from now they’ll say we took advantage of them and ripped them off and only gave them a little land and a measly 300,000,000.00 dollars and our government, having no balls, will start to renegociate with them again.
    It’s all bull@#$% and I’m going on a hunger strike diet of Big Mac Meals and I’ll be staying at the Chateau Laurier until Haper and the GG meet with me
    GARBAGE!

    1. Iggy wrote: “I’m going on a hunger strike diet of Big Mac Meals and I’ll be staying at the Chateau Laurier…”

      For gawd sake man, don’t do that you’ll never survive!

      Outdoorsguy

  4. Lots of coverage on that potential deal for the Ontario side, which will only encourage the Algonquins from the other side of the river. But did you see the area / territory size on the QC side of the map. Wondering if I will still be the owner of that residence of mine one day.

    Might have to bare arm, for my own rights.

    1. Yes LG, I thought of that too…just wondering how the QC gov’t would have handled the situation. Its hard to say. They’re out to lunch when it comes to long gun, so who knows…

      Outdoorsguy

  5. …..This could also mean the end to registered trap lines.

    With all due respect to our Native Canadians it boils my blood that they do not practice Natural Resources Conservation, Their approach to Natural Resources is more along the lines of the beliefs and practices of Miners as opposed to Farmers.

    Miners and Mining companies exploit the natural resource at any cost in order to satisfy their own greed where as farmers manage their lands and herds for a healthy environment,

  6. I’ll survive Jeff, I might be down to one double chin but I’ll survive

    saw a really funny cartoon,
    T. Spence is talking to the PMO spokesperson and he says
    Mr Harper will see you but the Govenor General can’t, and the Auditor General would love to

  7. Outdoors Guy I understand the reluctance to discuss this issue. It seems that any time someone dares to criticize the Native agenda, they are immediately branded as a racist. It does tend to shut down the debate quickly. This land claim is completely wrong and I wonder how long Canadians will continue to put up with it.

    1. Yes Hunting mom, you hit the nail on the head! And it’s sad really that it has to be that way..because I know most hunters are not prejudice in any way..just VERRRYY protective of our renewable natural resources.

      Outdoorsguy

  8. Hello Jeff

    Oh boy are we in for a fleecing.Folks won’t have to worry about whether they can still hunt on there land or fish in the crown waters because when the natives get at it there won’t be any animals left to hunt on those lands or fish to catch.There’s no such thing as selective harvest. You know the old saying (if it’s brown it’s down) well that will be there ancestrial right.And when they’ve cleaned out all there is then they’ll make there way back to the government trough for more money and another stretch of real estate. The MNR doesn’t have the resources or will to try and patrol what they have control over now let alone go after them for infractions. I have said it before and i’ll say it again.If they want to be able to fish and hunt as per there right it should be with the primitive weapons and tools that they used before the white man came.Otherwise they should have to abide by the rules that the rest of us have to follow.

    1. Well rebel, we may take a fleecing over there but truly it is something that needs to be discussed. I can recall even 20 years ago…when I did some contract work and volunteering in College with the MNR, they were very cautious in how they dealt with native or aboriginal Natural Resource enforcement issues.

      Outdoorsguy

  9. Well its the natives hunting when they want for traditional purpose ?? it is also the MNR complete failure to manage our wildlife, the MNR mandate is to promote hunting and fishing, break the secret code and that means open up as much area so we can reap the cash rewards . I hope they finalize this deal and give the natives what they have negotiated for, as there is allot of Algonquin natives that think this is not enough land or money, better take the bird in hand than the natives in the bush

    1. Chessy, is this deal we speak of pretty much in the bag already? Where do we stand on that Mr. Research Assistant?

      Outdoorsguy

  10. Our governing parties are not united on this or any other issue unless it comes to their own perks. If the governing power says no, the other parties will jump on it and cry foul for votes regardless of what’s logical. To live their ‘traditional way of life’ doesn’t mean with top of the line gear on my dime. Unless the ‘tradional way of life’ includes casinos, illegal booze, and cigarettes. What’s done is done, and land is never going to make it all better. Why not try something uniquely Canadian; get a job, and be a contributing member of Canada rather than an escalating draw on taxpayers wallets. I am Canadian, I had to buy my land and I pay a stupid amount of taxes every single year just to keep it.

    You can be sure that things will change for the hunters and residents of the claim areas, and nothing good can come to the taxpayers there.

    As far as Ms Spence, if that’s the best they can do for a chief then my condolences. If you want to live in poverty in the ar$ehole of the country while she hoards away a fortune then that’s your problem, you have a choice, deal with it how you see fit. Take the next 100 million, cause you know there will be more, and move to civilization where your children will have a chance at a life.
    I wish someone had the balls to say no once and for all, so we can stop being held for ransom in our own damn country. I have respect for all people of Canada, and no one should be more entitled.

    Iggy, be like the cheif and smother everything in fish broth….

  11. Preliminary Draft Agreement-in-Principle

    A preliminary draft Agreement-in-Principle is now available for public review. This is not a final product. It sets out the main elements of a potential settlement which is still a number of years away.

    Public information sessions are taking place in the following locations:

    Ottawa: Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m., at Tudor Hall
    Perth: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m., at Perth Lions’ Hall
    Kingston: Friday, March 8, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m., at TraveLodge Hotel LaSalle
    North Bay: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m., at Best Western North Bay Hotel & Conference Centre
    Mattawa: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m., at Mike Rodden Arena & Community Centre
    Pembroke: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m., at Best Western Pembroke Inn & Conference Centre
    Bancroft: Friday, March 15, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m., at Faraday Community Centre
    Toronto: Saturday, March 16, 2013, 12:00 – 4:00 p.m., at Radisson Toronto East

  12. “It is still a preliminary draft,” said Potts. “The intention is to have some discussions with the public at large, including the Algonquin public, to make sure we’re heading in the right direction.”

    Eventual approval would have to come from the more than 8,000 registered voters from 10 Algonquin communities (including Pikwakanagan, Greater Golden Lake, Bonnechere Algonquins, and Whitney and Area Algonquins), and then from the Ontario and federal governments.

    The draft deal suggests the Algonquins would receive 184 square miles of Crown land in eastern Ontario and $300 million.

    “The preliminary draft AIP just released for public review is not a final product,” stressed Durga Thiru, senior issues co-ordinator at the provincial Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs.

    “Although it is a milestone in the negotiation process, additional public consultation is being undertaken by the parties before a final draft AIP will be completed.

    “Once that occurs, the Algonquins will prepare to put the draft AIP to a vote of their membership, possibly in mid-2013.”

    After that, there will be more negotiations.

    “If approved by all three parties, an AIP will form the basis for a number of years of negotiations and public consultations in crafting a Final Settlement Agreement,” said Thiru.

    “Such a Final Settlement Agreement would have to be formally approved by all three parties. If approved by the three parties, and then given legal force through legislation, a lengthy process of implementing the terms of a Final Agreement would begin.”

    Last week, Brian Crane, the chief negotiator for the Ontario government, and Potts both spoke to The West Carleton Review-EMC about the draft AIG.

    If approved, this agreement would be the first Aboriginal land claim to result in a treaty in Ontario since 1924.

    With the treaty, Crane said he believes “the conditions for the Algonquins will improve immensely and the business climate will improve. It’s a major piece of unfinished business, to get this resolved for Ontario and for Canada as well.”

    Major components of the draft agreement include the provision of land, harvesting rights and a financial package.

    Harvesting rights refer to hunting, fishing and trapping, including rights to do so in Algonquin Provincial Park according to guidelines that include a fish management plan.

    Crane says there will be no change in Algonquin Provincial Park administration, but the Algonquins are to be consulted on the park’s use and development, possibly through an Algonquin central liaison group.

    Economic development is a major theme of the agreement, with $300 million (based on December 2011 values and adjusted for inflation upon transfer) scheduled to go to an Algonquin institution or institutions.

    Also, land transferred to the Alqonquins will be subject to local municipal taxes, but not until it is developed.

  13. I’m happy to read all the comments here, Thanks for opening the discussion. I read some of the reader comments on the CBC article, and it just sickens me to know what some of countrymen say about the Aboriginals.

    This land claim does worry me for hunting grounds and established hunt camps. Many of currently hunt on this land without having an established camp, and those rights would no longer be available to all eastern Ontario “nomad” hunters. I strongly believe that Native hunters will tolerate established hunt camps for the first 10 years of the agreement – but I also believe they will impose their ownership as time goes on, to the point of pushing all non-natives, in a convincing non-violent fashion, off the land. Has anyone been hunting or accesssed native lands in other places? I haven’t, and I would never attempt to do so. I’ve heard stories of encounters, and I prefer to stay far away.

    From what I see on the map of the claim, it appears as though it includes most of the crown land in Eastern Ontario, from North Bay, south of the Mattawa River, and all along the Ottawa to Montreal, and south to Kingston (passing just north of Cornwall and Kingston) and back up to North Bay including most of Algonquin Park.

    What does this mean to hunters and fishers from all over eastern Ontario?

    What will happen to Algonquin Park?

    What about the vacant spaces in major cities, including the greenbelt in Ottawa?

    I wish natural resources were managed by a federal department, where all Canadians were treated equally on all Canadian lands. Hunting and fishing enthusiasts could enjoy the land from coast to coast with only one license. One can dream, no?

  14. You know something guys , I am really disappointed in people . If this was someone loosing there tv spots or some guns being taken away, we would be all over this, but seeing this is a touchy subject we as adults can’t talk about such things with out being hurtful or ignorant. There is lots of things I do not understand and the more we talk about it the more people can understand … so lets speak up and see where people stand

    1. Thanks guys for the comments..evidently we are all pretty much of the same mindset.

      It is my hope that at least one (and hopefully more) members of the Algonquin takes the time to comment here and share their point of view in all this. It is not anyone’s intention to label or point fingers but merely to discuss openly the impact(s) of this landmark land deal.

      Please please…if you are an aboriginal affected by this, stop by the Outdoors Guy and tells us how you feel. It’s evident that we(hunters/conservationists) are frustrated and confused and I bet many of you might be as well..

      Here’s hoping we can look at this from both sides….

      Outdoorsguy

  15. Chessy I think our collective “white guilt” has brought us to this point. It has also led to the sense of entitlement that we see in the Aboriginal community today, witness the recent Spence hunger strike. I myself am questioning the widely held beliefs that injustices that took place over 100 years ago are somehow relevant today.

  16. if the courts decide that we owe them the land. then give it to them . less the money we have given them and what the land cost . 100 years ago there were no roads no hydro no nothing. if it was 100 bucks a acer thats all they get so if they have to take less land to get to the magical value so be it . if its owed give it to them get it over with then start making them pay taxes. if they don’t want to pay then pull up the road pull the hydro poles and let them live there traditional ways. I have no use for people that think they are owed anything. hell we should go after our mother lands and make them pay for giving our great (to the power of 10 ) grandparents a shitty life . Lets just get this over with they will sell it all back to us in the long run anyway

  17. Exactly, I know of several instances where natives were hunting illegally and the MNR was contacted and they couldn’t do anything. I am sure most of them know the regulations but they do not care, they shoot or fish out whatever they can or want, yet we pay for this. Funny how the government can screw you while you’re standing up.

  18. At least we will be able to get a bottle of gut rot vodka and a carton of cheap smokes before we head into Algonquin park for a canoe trip. Too bad there likely won’t be any fish left when the nets are finally pulled.

  19. I know nothing the Aboriginals’ hunting/fishing habits, or allegations of poaching and mismanagement. We all hate it when the Granolas come on here spouting BS about hunting, gun laws, preservation, and generailizations based on a few bad apples. Lets not recipricate that on the Natives.

    However, I agree with Chessy… we can’t let this land grab continue without voicing our point of view, and our rights. We can do so with respect so long and it is mutual. One thing is certain, these lands are OUR lands! We owe to our ancestors, to ourselves, and to our children. As the Natives say: We do not own the land, we borrow it from our grandchildren.

    1. Man, talking about hunting and hunt camps being affected:

      My hunting buddy who takes care of our hunt camp when my father is in Florida, just called me this am to say he was at the camp to clear some snow off and found that some idiots had broken in!

      They chopped the friggin front door right off and messed the place up. Evidently they slept there over night and fortunately they didn’t steal anything this time, although they did have a bunch of items piled at the front door i.e. antlers from wall, saws, axes..but they never ended up taking them.

      Now our buddies have to go back up this afternoon to replace the door frame, repair the door and clean up the mess.

      That sort of blatant disrespect burns my ass big time..too bad I didn’t have a trail cam installed for surveillance like we talked about…oh well.

      Outdoorsguy

  20. That’s too bad Jeff, Bad feeling being broken in. There is nothing you can do, if they want to get in, they will.
    Best place to put a trailcam is where you can get a license plate. Thiefs are lazy, I’m assuming they did not drive in?

    Getting back to the other hot topic, everyone in fishing zone 18 greeted the new year with a new slot size on walleye.
    No more big fish. How does the slot size affect the first nations? I think you know the answer.

  21. Sorry to hear about your camp being vandalized. I can’t understand the logic of borrowing a camp for the night, then destroying it – possibly eliminating anyone from using it again including themselves. Just plain stupid.

  22. IMACDON i also hear allot of the volunteer fish hatcheries have said no to raising more walleye for the natives to harvests.. if true hats off to them, our white man generosity has to stop and stop now . and there is nothing worse than being broken into. you feel violated, the day our old house came down you could see the relive on the wife’s face as we were broken into 4 years earlier the wife never felt right again in the house

  23. hi jeff that does suck > This may cheer you up for years my friends hunting camp was broken in to so he installed a bear trap well well someone did break in again and he had a video camera set up we watched as they drank beer recked the camp and in the am they were leaving an ahole that did most of the damage stepped on the bear trap joy was heard around the world this piece of crap got what he deserved .He was seen crawling on the ground in pain:) too bad for him guess he won’t be running for his bus anytime soon

    1. hahaha..good one Mike! We’ve been trying to think of ways to prevent break-ins, and so far yours is the best!!

      Outdoorsguy

  24. oh boy jeff this one is a big can of worms , has anyone googled algonquin land claim map??? holy cow if what im hearing is correct were in for one hell of a dispute….

  25. Outdoors guy, I’m very sorry to hear about your break in. Those who destroy and take what others cherish and have worked for are the lowest of the low.

  26. Mike Jones, Ever hear the expression that “two wrongs don’t make a right” ? I would suggest that in the future, your friend may want to leave out the bear trap and simply put up a sign that suggests that there are bear traps set in the area, or just the trail camera alone would have done the trick.

    ps: There’s no statute of limitations on stupid stunts like this so tell me, who is this friend, who is the arsehole with the missing foot and where might this video be ?

  27. Jeff, that really sucks about the break in. Break ins are damaging in so many ways in addition to the inconvenience of the physical damage caused and the loss of personal property, sometimes there are sentimental items that are stolen or destroyed. In addition to that its the whole mind set that your personal space has been invaded. I don’t condone setting traps of any kind, they’re immoral and illegal. We rely on a few scare tactics including warning signs that the place is under video surveillance and is an active trapping area that includes bear traps. We also check the place often to give it that “lived in appearance”, add to that some strategically placed trail cameras and you’re all set. Now if only our judicial system would do their part…

    If your the type that seeks revenge on the culprit then I strongly suggest that you study sections 25 and 494 of the criminal code.

    1. Hey Trapper, already working on the sign idea because its a good one. Out first thought was the conceal a trailcam inside the camp, but that does nothing to prevent a break-in. A sign on the front door suggesting that “If they have read this notice, then they have already been photographed and video-taped, and should any damage occur, they will be prosecuted.” In my case, written in both French and English…(Of course French lettering would appear first and in larger font)

      Outdoorsguy

  28. It’s sad that you have to put another language (French) on top and twice the size of your own language (English) on a sign on your own property, but that’s Quebec for you. If you don’t, you might be inviting another break-in or vandalism or a complaint to the language police.

    1. Yes fishr, as you know that’s just the way it is over there.

      Guess you’re probably the only person here who knows where our camp is…we’re on 4-5 year average now when it comes to break-ins and vandalism. Sad state of affairs these days…things have changed since you used to fish up in that area.

      Outdoorsguy

  29. jeff , the one thing i dont understand is the natives say they need the land for the future prosperity of their people … do they not already have access to these lands?? why do they need ownership ???.. i feel for anyone who has a camp under these claims ,having to give up family traditions that go back 5 generations … i think this is ludicrous and plan to voice my concerns with the gvt. so should anyone else opposed if people sit back and do nothing it will be gone and good luck ever getiing it back……

  30. In response to trapper, unfortunately my friend deleted the video for legal reasons, but we do live in an era where we have the right to protect what is ours and this was the fourth break in. My comrades were pissed off they had an idea who was breaking into several camps. Since this incident, not one single break in has occurred. Just like combat sometimes a drastic measure has to be initiated to cure the disease. It does take an ass to violate something sacred as a hunt camp.

    1. Hey mike, I agree with you 100%..however, I think Trapper’s point was that in these instances where the land or property owner retaliates, often times it is the good guy who ends up losing. We are in Canada remember…

      It reminds me of an incident years ago when some friends dropped by the house to say, “Think you better get up to your camp, there’s a guy living in it!”

      Of course my Dad, brother-in-law’s and I tore up there like a bat out of hell ready to pound the guy into oblivion. It took some level-headed thinking to make the call to the police instead who met us at the camp. We arrived first to hold the guy there till the cops arrived. He had a gun with him which we removed quickly. The guy just about crapped his pants when my oldman entered the camp..he’s got a pretty booming voice, anyway..the fear this guy had on his face was priceless. It turned out he was having trouble at home and wanted a place to escape. His father paid for all the damage and we hear that today, this same guy has turned his life around. His father tells us that the camp incident was, in an ironic way, a pivotal moment in this fellow’s life. He quickly learned about respect and authority two things he had be clueless about.

      I guess my point is, we handled this situation a different way than we had planned..and it had a much more positive outcome.

      How does my camp break-in tie in with the First Nations land deal in Central Ontario? Well, I think anyone with a camp on Crown land in this region can only ask for the same respect the Canadian Government has given them over the years. Our camp is also located on crown land..has been since the 1930’s…and my grandfather and father have paid lease fees regularly without complaint.

      Good tenants need to be rewarded with respect and courtesy..regardless of who the landlord is…

      Outdoorsguy

  31. Crown land was set aside for all CANADIANS to use and enjoy. For some reason our governments bend over backwards to cultural groups to the detriment of the majority. This is a bum deal to the MAJORITY of canadians.Two wrongs do not make a right. The native groups have a lot of bigger issues to deal with other than owning more land. Its time to stop living in the past and move on with importent issues in the native communities and until then the woe is me attitude will continue to fester and the weels will just keep on
    spinning in the sand. That being said,
    i hate the typical comments that spew out when discussing native issues (some on this page). If certain people have issues with slot size and overharvesting spit your venom at the government you elected!

    i

  32. Quote “mike jones says: February 12, 2013 at 6:37 am In response to trapper, unfortunately my friend deleted the video for legal reasons END QUOTE

    I think you answered my point…hehe

    Mike, don’t get me wrong I understand the frustration and at times feel the need to seek revenge on our society’s arseholes but setting a bear trap is just wrong in so many ways. I have first hand knowledge of the woes of incidental catches but I couldn’t imagine having to deal with catching a family, friend, child or pet in a bear trap. They’re right up there with land mines (even war has rules….)

    I still like the power invested by section 25 better.

  33. I completely agree with mcdan. Native people have far greater issues to deal with, such as their precious children growing up in terrible conditions with no hope for a decent future.

        1. Hey…please check out the list of Information sessions on the Algonquin Land Claims:

          GOVERNMENT PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSIONS SCHEDULE

          OTTAWA: Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m. at Tudor Hall

          PERTH: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m. at Perth Lions’ Hall

          KINGSTON: Friday, March 8, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m. at Travelodge Hotel LaSalle

          NORTH BAY: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m. at Best Western North Bay Hotel & Conference Centre

          MATTAWA: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m. at Mike Rodden Arena & Community Centre

          PEMBROKE: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m. at Best Western Pembroke Inn & Conference Centre

          BANCROFT: Friday, March 15, 2013, 3:00 – 8:00 p.m. at Faraday Community Centre

          TORONTO: Saturday, March 16, 2013, 12:00 – 4:00 p.m. at Radisson Toronto East

          Please also see http://www.ontario.ca/algonquinlandclaim

  34. The interests of waterfront property owners in Eastern Ontario will be impacted by the terms being negotiated as part of the Algonquin Land Claim. The negotiations toward an Agreement in Principle are at a critical phase. FOCA (Federation of Ontario Cottagers Association) has many member groups within the claim territory and writes today to update all of our members, and any waterfront property owners that will be subject to the terms of this Agreement.

    The Algonquin land claim covers a significant area of 36,000 square kilometres or 8.9 million acres within the Ottawa and Mattawa River watersheds, and includes most of Algonquin Park, CFB Petawawa and the National Capital Region, including Parliament Hill. Approximately 59 per cent of the claim area is privately held patented land, 21 per cent is within Algonquin Park, 16 per cent is provincial Crown lands, and four per cent is federal Crown land. More than a million people reside and work within the claim territory.

    The settlement under negotiation may ultimately lead to new economic or land development initiatives, revised approaches to fishing and hunting, and other matters impacting waterfront property owners and adjacent lands.

    FOCA has been a member of the Committee of External Advisors on the land claim for many years, though very little consultation has taken place to date. It is our concern that communication to our community may not occur until after an Agreement in Principle has been negotiated and signed.

    FOCA strongly believes that a thorough review of the potential impact of the claim on private landowners, fish and wildlife populations, the future conservation of land and water resources and the impact on local businesses and the economy should be a priority for everyone at the negotiating table.

    FOCA has provided a written comment to this effect. Read FOCA’s letter. We encourage all landowners with an interest in this matter to likewise comment as soon as possible. Comments or questions can be directed to:
    Program and Community Liaison Assistant shelly.dumouchel@ontario.ca
    Ontario Information Centre, Algonquin Land Claim
    31 Riverside Drive, Pembroke, ON K8A 8R6
    Phone: (613) 732-8081 Fax: (613) 732-7136

    We look forward to an open and transparent process that reflects the interests of all the stakeholders potentially impacted by this negotiation.You can follow developments on the FOCA Hot Topics – Algonquin Land Claim page.

    Sincerely,

    Edward (Ted) Spence
    President, FOCA Board of Directors

  35. All of you “white men” are ridiculous! Do you see what you’re writing?
    If it doesn’t concern you, leave it the f*ck alone. And it’s not land AND money being given to us natives, it’s money OR land. I honestly can’t believe what I’m reading. YOU took OUR land away from us. Going into Algonquin Park fishing and hunting and seeing white man there is a slap in the face. The only thing that’s ours and you’re STILL trying to take that too?! F*ck all of you. You want our land to be yours like everything else you took from us, you’ll have to go through a pretty big f*cking army.
    White man hunters can go hunt elsewhere, leave the native land to the natives.

  36. As for the native children growing up with no hope, go f*ck yourself! I’m a native child and I’m doing pretty good. Not all natives live on reservations and not all natives are dirty f*cks with no hope like you think. You’re all gunna burn in hell. I hope it hurts, cause I’ll be laughing!

    1. AlgonquinHunter, if you wish to continue on this Blog, you will need to control your aggressive/threatening tone. I let your comments pass this time (with moderation) but will have them pulled if it continues.

      Consider this your first warning.

      Outdoorsguy

  37. I certainly hope Algonquin Hunter attends a few Pow Wows and listens to his elders and learns something.

    If it wasn’t for the white man taking control of this land then there would be none left today….your fore fathers traded it for whiskey so blame them. Sadly today’s natives choose not to practice any form of conservation and this will definitely lead to a serious strain on all the resources.

  38. It always surprises me when I am randomly surfing the web and come across something that so aptly demonstrates the “average” Canadian’s astounding lack of education. Way to represent Canada the Just, Canada the Fair, Canada the Polite, Canada the Good, Canada, the Human Rights Nation!

    To make it easy for most of you, the Algonquian land claim exists BECAUSE there was NEVER a treaty signed for this land… It’s your history, educate yourself. Not to mention that almost without exception, Natives in Canada NEVER agreed to give up sovereignty or their land – they agreed to share – where we are now is a result of countless lies, fraud, and racism at the hands of our government. This is easily proven – by “white” historians and the government’s OWN records. Under international law, Canada actually has no legal right to exist… try swallowing that one…

    As for racism, well, people call you racist because when you relay things such as “we deserve X because our ancestors have lived here for hundreds of years” when the natives deserve nothing and have been living here thousands – is racism.

    or

    “poor white man facing injustice at hands of natives” when those “white men” are living on land stolen from natives – and who, apparently, do not deserve justice – well, that is racism.

    or

    “If Indians want to then they need to live the way their ancestors did before Europeans got here” – while you, obviously, do not live the way YOUR ancestors did when they first got here (well, except for the racist part I guess) – is racism.

    And among my favourite arguments – “When will it stop? Seriously? I feel I’m being punished for something our forefathers did. I guess natives feel the same way, but that’s all over with now. We didn’t control the decisions back then, but we can have a say now I hope!” – well, you certainly do not seem to have a problem benefiting from something your ancestors did… and you seem to ignore all the stuff that still happens now. Your punishment, of course, is the only part that matters – the theft of all of their land is certainly no punishment for Indigenous peoples… guess what? that argument… racist.

    So, justice is only for the “white”, in the present, who should be able to benefit from the illegal actions of their ancestors? Perpetuating the illegal, immoral, and unethical actions of your ancestors is, of course, perfectly acceptable.

    Not to mention the far more blatant racism spewed by the likes of “Trapper”, “Chessy”, “Hunting Mom”,”rebel” “mcdan, and, well, pretty much all of you.

    To state it in even simpler terms – you do not live on Canadian land. You, according to every tenet of both Canadian and International law that you, and Canada, seem to conveniently forget whenever it benefits you, live on STOLEN LAND. To decide that the natives did not deserve it for whatever reasons you and past settlers can dream up – is – can you guess? Racist.

  39. Ran out of space, but this one deserves special mention…

    “If it wasn’t for the white man taking control of this land then there would be none left today….your fore fathers traded it for whiskey so blame them. Sadly today’s natives choose not to practice any form of conservation and this will definitely lead to a serious strain on all the resources.”

    Wow, utterly astounding demonstration of racism. The Great White Saviour. Hate to break it to you there sparky, but natives were doing just fine before “white man” showed up. They were actually called “The Original Affluent Societies” – because they were doing very well indeed. They did not trade it for whiskey – those Great White Saviours liked to find natives – any would generally do – get them drunk – and get them to sign – something they had no right to sign – which, the government “negotiators” knew quite well. Again, your own history, look it up.

    And do we really need to discuss the track record of conservation practices by Canadians? Where, exactly, do you think all of those “resources” that Canada “develops” came from? 60% of the world’s food originated from natives in America. 70% of the world’s medicines were “patented” from knowledge gained from Indigenous peoples. America was coveted because of its resources – which kind of had to be left there by those horribly destructive natives in order for your ancestors and you to be able to exploit them.

    But, I do thank you all. My class today enjoyed reading this blog as a demonstration of “main stream racism”.

  40. i am a status first nation man reading a lot of the post i feel most comments are not racist but are ill informed if the govt. of the day honoured its promise we would not be in this conflict today natives were forced from the land plain and simple just because it was stolen long ago does not make it right many of the 7000 natives in the land claim area dont even fish or hunt how many non natives hunt and fish the area how many catch more than their limit how many eat walleye all weekend and still bring a couple of limits home how many bring their kids that are to young to fish along so they can take an extra limit how many get there non hunting wives son and daughters to apply for a moose tag so they can get a extra tag how many shoot first then go find a buddy with a tag im asked at least five times a year by non natives to help them get a moose as a side note ive worked underground in the same mine for thirty years i pay at least 40 percent of my gross income in taxes

  41. Tax free this and that… It’s our God given rights to do such, and that…Where’s da great Manitou in this? God was brought over by the White Man, not a Native tradition. Can’t touch that! It’s the White Man’s right to refuse you God’s blessings…
    So you “cheated, abused, poverty striken (not because you were’t given the chance and free MONEY to educate yourselves) so hard and done by people” feel that everything is yours to kill and drain lakes. OK…I’ll bite!
    How about this, Brother Kimossabe…It’s your right to hunt and fish, BUT not with the White Man’s Tools. You may hunt with your Native hunting and brave warrior tools that your forefathers used. The bow and arrow, the spear, and whatever else was at your people’s disposition. That means, no snowmobiles, no rifles, no gill nets to empty lakes the same way Lake Nipissing is being killed off by the Garden Village Reserve. No, my Native friends, your ways and traditions do not include the rifles, nor the gill nets. These are White Man’s inventions…which you have stolen to include within your rights.
    Why don’t you people come back within the Twenty-First century, intergrate within the Canadian society as a legit tax-payer, as a legit people that contributes back into to society and the country you live in. The way that I see it,, the majority of Natives DO NOT contribute anything to Canada but grief, and are a money pit to the Federal Government. My family has been here for 400 hundred years. My family has contributed into develloping this country into what it is today. What about my rights, Kimossabe?…I’m a native Canadian also. My roots are so far entrenched into this country, that my European lineage doesn’t even count anymore.
    This country cannot survives with one side paying the whole shot, and other leeching them like blood-suckers, and being a spoiled-brat. Yes, and I repeat BEING A SPOILED-BRAT. Come back to civilization, will ya. Sitting Bull, Tekumseh, Crazy Horse…Those days are gone. You can’t live like your ancestors did 200, 300, and 400 years ago. You just can’t anymore, and then expect to live the life of Riley on top of that . “Mine…mine…mine” will eventually get plugged up at the source. Many “white men” enjoy a tradition in the Outdoors as well, and if their Canadian rights to hunt and fish are revoked because of the Government’s hushed-up folding to more Native whining and demands…BOOM!!!…This will escalate to more serious confrontations. Mark my words. The only responsible for this fiasco will have been our own “gutless” Government for not putting its foot down, once and for all. The Government has been the sole responsible for mismanaging this Native BS since Canada was a newborn “baby”.
    What when you Native “conservationists” have depleted everything, as is the custom, and always was!??!…Once a hunting area was depleted, same for the fishing area, the village packed up the teepees, and moved on to the next “free…

  42. ooops…Ran out of space….Anyways, like I was saying…they moved on to the next “free fer all” spot. This is exactly what’s gonna happen. Once beautiful Algonquin Park has been emptied of its wildlife, what next?
    I’ll repeat what I said earlier…You people want the rights to everything…Fine…But do it within your traditions, not the “white man’s way. NO rifles!…No ATVs!…No motorized boats!…No gill nets!…Do it with what the Natives have used in the ” ancient and wise ways our Forefathers” used to do it. Call upon their “spirits” to make your arrows accurate…and the spears true to their targets. After all, isn’t it what you Natives are after. A life in traditional way?!…So be it! … We’ll take our guns back. Please and thank you!…It’s a white man’s invention…MINE!….No four-wheel drive 2014 Dodge Ram Hemi pickup trucks…Please and thank you. White man’s invention for mode of transportation. MINE!… NO ATV!… Same as previous explanation. It simply belongs to the White Man…MINE!!…NO gill nets! First off, it kills more than the targeted species of fish. Secondly…I can’t count how many times I’ve heard from people ice fishing on Lake Nipissing getting snagged on Native nets….which are supposedly required to be removed before the lake freezes over. Guess what?!…They’re full of beautiful fish…all kinds of species, indigenous to that beautiful lake…rotting away because of plain laziness…or hangover..More than likely. Furthermore, this a “white man’s” invention, again. Can’t touch that! It isn’t within your Native’s rights and traditions…Remember?…So….It’s MINE!!!…See where this is all going, Kimossabe?!?…It’s your choice. Be a Native “separatist”, whose sole purpose is to gauge as much, leech as much from the White Man, and create total avok whilst doing it. Or, become a Canadian citizen, whilst keeping your Native values and traditions. Be a tax-paying Canadian Citizen, and contribute to what this great country offers, instead of reaping (leeching it off the back of the working white man) it for nothing. anyways, this story has been heard over and over again. Our Government has no backbone…Can’t do a friggin’ thing, anyways. We’re being sold out. Our own rights are being sold out…and we can’t, as law abiding Canadians, do anything about it. Did American Benedict Arnold leave any unwanted “roots” in this country?
    Racist?…Nah…I know in my heart that I’m not. I’m just tired of having what used to be MY rights taken away from me piece by piece. There cannot be two sets of laws for the people in this country. It doesn’t make sense. It’ll all blow up in Ottawa’s face eventually, and hard. Americans may be this and that, but they have it right with their Constitution. The same laws, and the same rights apply to one and all. Such explains their patriotism towards their country.

  43. I am a person of Algonquin ancestry. I trace from the Kichesipirini Algonquins, the largest and most politically powerful group at time of contact. Our historical record and genealogies are verifiable and authentic. I represent my community as representative of part of the customary governance of the Algonquin Nation. I have refused to participate in these land claims processes since we know that they cannot ever bring actual closure to the issues. Matters of sovereignty and title to land and colonization are all matters of international law and will require an international intervention. I have repeatedly written about the details in numerous articles and submissions. I think it is terrible that Canadians are not properly informed about the issues, especially that local communities and local people exercising traditional lifestyles like hunting/fishing should have been given fair representation, full and effective participation in a meaningful process. Please read: http://www.dominionpaper.ca/weblogs/paula_lapierre/4369 , and if interested sign https://www.causes.com/campaigns/68294-hold-harper-accountable-to-international-treaty

  44. Well as a member of the Algonquin Land Claim Treaty, I have to say I wish you would read the facts before you publish.

    I’ve enclosed the link which holds the details of the proposed agreement to date and hope that those of you who think you have rights more so than the persons who were here long before immigration, stop and think. This is and always was our homeland. Why are we still fighting for our rights to what was always ours to begin with? The agreement is something that has been long time coming. As a proud native I believe that fair is far from what we have had to endure over the past few centuries.

    Please read and educate before you speak.

    http://www.ontario.ca/aboriginal/algonquin-land-claim

    Yes, the area is large but we are a large group of people who have lived in these areas long before the white man came and took over with their disease, gun, alcohol and government.

    I wish you all good health and happy hunting.

    Kwey,

    Algonquin Native

  45. @Gilbert Lavoie,

    Wow, your some piece of work. I am a tax paying citizen. I am a huge contributor to society as a member of the legal community and as a volunteer in the community where I live. This does not give YOU or any other person the right to judge my family and heritage and how I should live my life.

    Your arrogance and ignorance is exactly what we are fighting against the stereo typing of our heritage. Yes, I would consider you a racist for sure as you have made all the statements as one would. Next you will be saying we should all be locked up and/or put out of our pathetic misery. Please, we did very well without the white man and his ways for centuries without raping our earth of everything she has to offer. Unlike the white man who pillages and takes what-ever he damn well pleases regardless of the consequences. Take a good hard look at what you have done to our earth with your society!!! Really you think your better people than we are….

    Remember it has always been the Aboriginals country you are the intruders and you balk when we say we have rights … Please think before you speak your ignorance is showing,

  46. yup and i sure as hell hope the government stops stocking your lakes and rivers and lets you people be. a prime example is lake nippising you have gill netted that lake into nothing all for the sake of money well this fish came from my sweat from being a tax payer . i sure as hell hope the government shoves the land down your throat and the govenemnet gives you nothing else… you ansestors did the deal if they were that stupid oh well and as far as invading your country. just think if hitler had conquered us do you think we would still be speaking English. And brant who is adopted is one of your greatest people and he is White lol . i think we need cowboys and indians all over again. No special treatment for any race.

  47. My family first settled in around the Nipissing area at a time where the level of existence was improved by both cultures through trade and knowledge. After a well, of course, there were marriages between my family and the Algonquins. This knowledge of both cultures has been handed down father to son since the area became the District of Nipissing. I to married Algonquin and have a son and daughter who both know where they come from. Why am I telling you this? Don’t be guilty to which you accuse. My point to all this? If it wasn’t for the knowledge shared by the Algonquins of the time, I could very easily doubt my existence. There’s thousands of stories the same as mine, It’s how we came to be here in the first place. I’m reminded of stories of the first settlers and the life they had to endure. Before the help from the natives on how to stop dieing and survive here. This mutual existence through trade and knowledge benefited both cultures. This was the birth place of multiculturalism, two cultures learning to improve the quality of life and survival and is the root and foundation of Canada, If nothing else, have a little respect in that,

  48. Well said “educate yourself” and thank you if everyone understood the amount of time it took to get where we are today doesn’t matter land was taken and it should be given back and we really are not asking for all of Canada back just a very small piece is that to much to ask.As for the hecklers grow up we are all people act like it not animals.And as for the threat “Gillbert Lavoie” it sounds like you will be the first person put in jail for doing something stupid. If we didn’t get our land taken from us and over forested to build you a house the animal populations would be way better back to what it was that’s the biggest burden on animals not over hunting cars hitting them so go get the education you obviously need before you say the next stupid thing.

  49. Just to point this out, as it seems to be forgotten… if the particular breed of “white man” who eventually created Canada had not taken over this country, it would not have remained a country of tribes subsisting as they always have, or even a modern native controlled state. What would have happened is another breed of “white man” would have taken over instead, Most likely Russia or the United states… both of whom have a far worse record with dealing with their native peoples than Canada. Yes there were injustices committed, but in the grand scheme of things being an indigenous race in what was appropriated and named Canada is darn near like winning the lottery when compared to pretty much any other country’s history of dealing with native peoples.

    I’m not excusing the injustices committed against natives in the past but I’m sure tired of hearing everyone whine about them over and over. It is what it is, and if it was anything else it would have almost surely have gone a lot worse for the natives.

  50. While in Canada there wasn’t the state-sponsored outright murdering of Indigenous Peoples like in the U.S., the recent report from the Truth & Reconciliation Commission has brought to our attention Canada’s attempt to “kill the Indian in the child” by means of the Residential School system. So, instead of America’s direct killing and/or harassing of Native Peoples such as experienced for instance by the Cherokee, the Apache, and the Nez Perce, Canada’s less obvious but equally reprehensible approach was a policy of ‘Cultural Genocide’. And the legacy of that is the suicide rate of Indigenous Youth in Canada being the highest in the world. Can that legacy, I ask, be regarded as particularly preferable?

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